Background
Brad is the founder of Altimeter Capital. Rich is the founder/CEO of Zillow and also founded Expedia & Glassdoor. We cover Rich’s “power to the people” strategy, going public through SPACs vs. IPOs, and using big hairy audacious goals to build a great company.
Date
October 27, 2020
Episode Number
197
Tags
Venture CapitalGrowth Equity
Principles & Lessons:
- Understanding market dynamics requires more than TAM—it requires asking what the internet fundamentally changes. Rich Barton's insight that a "regular person armed with a connected PC" could break through information asymmetries shows that fundamental shifts in power, not just market sizing (TAM), drive opportunity. His businesses (Expedia, Zillow, Glassdoor) each identified where opaque information had been protected by industry incumbents and removed that barrier. “We will get [power].” This reflects the recognition that information asymmetry is not just an inefficiency—it is often a fragile equilibrium ripe for collapse.
- Courage is not about recklessness—it's a necessary imbalance in entrepreneurial epistemology. Barton uses the Wizard of Oz as a model for evaluating leaders: the best have a balance of courage, heart, and brains. Yet he also emphasizes that, in startups, courage may need to over-index temporarily. Brad Gerstner, reflecting on his own career, notes that investors focus on probabilities, while entrepreneurs must imagine futures not yet visible. Courage is essential for initiating actions before explanations fully exist. “You have to think about the world that you wish to exist, not the one that does exist.”
- Valuation methods must include a structured approach to upside, not just downside. Anu Hariharan emphasizes how her diligence process evolved from risk-focused (private equity) to upside-oriented (venture). Marc Andreessen's advice to her: “You use the same process to figure out the upside potential.” A “missed grand slam” (turning down a 10X opportunity) is epistemologically more costly than a 1X loss. This reframes diligence as a tool not merely for elimination of downside, but for refining explanations of how improbable success might become probable.
- A repeatable “hard thing” in operations can be more defensible than IP. Mario Cibelli’s analysis of Netflix and Stitch Fix focuses not on software moats but on operational scale built through iteration. Stitch Fix’s labor-intensive DCs and quality control were not generic logistics but bespoke workflows that take years to perfect. “Copycat companies... are going to have to make all those mistakes.” He treats defensibility not as a label but as an emergent property from process complexity combined with optimization learning curves.
- Good product is more than good UX—it’s virality embedded in function. Both Barton and Gerstner critique early overreliance on SEO as a growth engine. Barton describes his team’s offsite where they imagined launching Zillow with zero marketing spend—leading them to design the Zestimate as a provocative viral loop. “The most important part of the marketing mix is the product.” The idea is that good growth is endogenous to use, not grafted on top via advertising. If a product requires external effort to be discovered, its epistemic value hasn’t yet been fully uncovered by users.
- SPACs reframe the process of going public by giving founders more epistemic control over their own narrative. Gerstner positions SPACs as “IPO 2.0”, not just in mechanics but in agency. Traditional IPOs randomize the cap table and withhold pricing and shareholder composition until the very end. With SPACs, “you set the price, you tell the story with forward-looking forecasts.” Founders regain the ability to explain their own businesses, rather than submitting to the framing imposed by underwriters. This reveals a deeper lesson: control over the explanatory model—how a company is understood—is core to power in markets.
- The durability of upside is tied to product-driven growth, not paid acquisition. Hariharan and Gerstner both emphasize that successful growth is hard to fake and compounds only when anchored in user need. Faire’s strategy of using suppliers to onboard retailers is a good example: it’s a loop embedded in the business logic, not added through subsidy. Similarly, Monzo’s peer-to-peer dynamics reflect product as distribution. When growth is product-led, it reveals understanding; when it’s paid, it may signal a lack of such understanding.
- The most important early hires shape the epistemic “initial conditions” of a company. Barton analogizes the early team to the “initial conditions of the universe”—a reference to how early parameters shape long-term dynamics. Talent density isn’t just about brilliance, it’s about compatibility with a culture of adaptive reasoning. “It takes some experience before you realize that you're not doing anybody any favors leaving the pitcher on the mound too long.” The explanatory model here is: early talent errors aren't localized; they propagate systemically. Good founders don’t just hire well—they know when they got it wrong and act.
Transcript
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